Alabama, unless stopped by the courts, intends to strap Kenneth Eugene Smith to a gurney Thursday and use a gas mask to replace breathable air with nitrogen, depriving him of oxygen, in the nation’s first execution attempt with the method.
The Alabama attorney general’s office told federal appeals court judges last week that nitrogen hypoxia is “the most painless and humane method of execution known to man.” But what exactly Smith, 58, will feel after the warden switches on the gas is unknown, some doctors and critics say.
“What effect the condemned person will feel from the nitrogen gas itself, no one knows,” Dr. Jeffrey Keller, president of the American College of Correctional Physicians, wrote in an email. “This has never been done before. It is an experimental procedure.”
Keller, who was not involved in developing the Alabama protocol, said the plan is to “eliminate all of the oxygen from the air” that Smith is breathing by replacing it with nitrogen.
IMHO, executions don’t make sense given the amount of innocent people that we keep finding on death row.
It makes even less sense given that we need to have a long expensive, and highly imperfect, appellate process to double check that we’re not killing innocent people.
Also, we don’t really have any good data to support the claim that the death penalty deters people from committing terrible crimes. People that are going to do something -that- bad are usually going to do it.
I don’t see it as intended as a deterrent so much as a statement of values. A way of saying some things are not games or forgivable.
But in order to make that statement of values, are you willing to execute innocent people and to divert money away from other public programs that uphold other important values?
Like murdering an innocent person?
You wrote a contradiction in which it’s not a deterrent but is one too.
We know exactly what happens when people experience nitrogen hypoxia. They get confused, then they lose consciousness, then die only if deprived of oxygen for quite some time.
We know because many people have experienced it and survived (because the oxygen was switched back on). I personally know someone who experienced this in a controlled test with the military.
An example of said training given to the untrained.
https://youtu.be/kUfF2MTnqAw?feature=shared
I wouldn’t want to die that way.
The pain might not be there but the realisation is.
He’s able to state that he doesn’t want to die, but needs help putting the mask on.
It’s a slow mental death, even if not a physically painful one, it’s slow.
The humane way to kill someone is quick and painless. Not slow and painless. This is better than the injection which is slow and painful but still not humane.
Your video shows exactly how painless it is, and in fact how it can cause euphoria instead. Besides, this execution method is fundamentally different because it removes oxygen completely while maintaining normal pressure, causing unconsciousness to happen much faster with fewer physiological responses.
Obviously execution is heinous at its very core, but your criticisms don’t seem to line up with the scientific facts.
Only when he knows he’s not meant to die.
If he was told he was going to die he’d be crying at the moment he realised he was dying. Which as you can see from the first time he said “I don’t want to die” would be several minutes.
“Scientific facts” are studies. We’re just people on the internet giving opinions.
YOU are giving opinions, I am giving facts. Here are a few peer reviewed studies that support my statements:
- Nitrogen Hypoxia in mice reduces stress instead of increases it like CO2
- Unconsciousness happens within 5-10 seconds when inhaling inert gases like helium or nitrogen, and does not trigger “suffocation” reflexes like with CO2 asphyxiation
- Nitrogen causes unconsciousness in seconds, but can cause “severe” convulsions unlike other types of gas such as propane or helium. This obviously wouldn’t bother the one dying, but it is upsetting in general.
Really, inert gas hypoxia is quite painless and fast, it’s a decent way to go. That being said, execution is barbaric practice we have no need of.
Well one of those is disputed by evidence directly. 5-10 seconds is clearly in a context irrelevant to the discussion.
But I’m glad you got a hit on your Google scholar search.
Care to read the papers too?
I don’t, you’re not displaying any reason at all.
I did read the papers and this process is extraordinarily similar to the process that is going to be used in the execution (immediate removal of all oxygen). Quote from the article:
The state of Alabama has predicted in federal court filings that the nitrogen gas will “cause unconsciousness within seconds, and cause death within minutes.”
This is exactly the context that is relevant to the discussion. Did you possibly have something else in mind?
That’s simply not how breathing works.
This is stating unconsciousness “within seconds”. How many.
120 is a normal range to pass out from complete oxygen deprivation… That’s also countable in minutes. It ranges from 30-180 seconds.
It’s slow.
Read the papers.
I want to recap the long sequence of events that has led up to this point:
- In the beginning of this narrative, every death penalty state was doing lethal injections with a three drug protocol.
- Italy and maybe some other European nations start arresting pharmaceutical executives and charging them with murder, because their drugs are being used for these lethal injections in the United States.
- Drug companies stop selling their drugs to state penitentiaries. States are not able to perform executions.
- Death penalty states start amending their protocols to switch to different drugs and sometimes a single dose barbiturate protocol.
- Those drugs become harder and harder to source. Pharma companies become completely unwilling to dispense the drugs at all. State legislatures start allowing corrections officials to change the protocol without amending state law, in an effort to keep up.
- States resort to buying drugs from shady compounding pharmacies in secret. Having prison guards write dosage protocols turns out to have been a bad idea. Because, guess what, anesthesiologists are a highly compensated medical specialty, because what they do is highly complicated. So some exit l executions are botched, which delays things even more.
- It’s in this environment that this nitrogen idea migrates from internet boards into the state legislatures.
The big picture here is that if execution remains legal, but you take away all the options, death penalty states will go looking for alternative options.
This is super interesting and I’d love it if you had some sources I could follow. Trying to dig but Google is useless these days.
I’d die to get out of Alabama too.
There’s a great Jacob Geller video about how methods of execution have evolved and why they’ve evolved.
I wouldn’t do it justice but it points out how every time we make a ‘more humane’ way of killing it often just reduces the person’s ability to show suffering, rather than reducing the suffering itself. In many cases the suffering is increased as we say the method is less barbaric; a firing squad has the highest success rate and likely the fastest death.
I can’t recommend this enough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eirR4FHY2YY Piped bot do your thing
We should abolish the death penalty.
Pretending no one knows what happens when people breathe pure nitrogen until they die is absolutely ludicrous. Especially because what you’re breathing right now is mostly nitrogen.
We know what happens because it happens to mine workers and scuba divers and others by accident. It’s pretty pain/panic-less, which is normally why it’s such a big deal to try and avoid. It’s advocated for as a method by right-to-die proponents because it’s so painless. Pretending this is random human experimentation just gives leverage to dismiss the entire argument.
At least it was painless /s
I do agree the death penalty should be abolished, by the way
Remember when Edison electrocuted a bunch of animals to prove how dangerous AC was? Do you not believe AC can be used correctly?
Nitrogen is one of the methods advocated for by right-to-die advocates for a reason.
Botched execution of the execution are one of the reasons there shouldn’t be executions. A bunch of guys “playing it by ear” who want the accused to suffer are not going to do a good job.
I agree wholeheartedly. My point was more that if you’re making execution into a pseudo-medical event (For example with lethal injections) then you’re going to have more botched executions since the people performing them aren’t medical personnel.
While I don’t believe we should have executions a gun is designed to be used with little training, but syringes and medical gas supply masks (Don’t know the actual name for them) are meant to be used with training. If executions are going to happen surely we should consider the aptitude of those administering them?
We, as many other families before us at the Hillcrest palliative care hospital in San Diego, had to pull the plug on my Dad because the insurance company thought he wouldn’t recover so they used a psycho asshole to convince the family to just pull the plug. It’s not worth loosing your house over loosing the person who worked his ass off to buy it.
Now imagine how awesome one of us would feel if dying from oxygen deprivation was actually more painful than other means? Wouldn’t we then start asking for squad style send offs at the hospital?
I’ve been through pulling the plug and my dad didn’t speak English so he’s not gonna be mad if I joke about it…like you would go up to him and whisper some last words…“hey dad what’s the admin password to the router again? And he would say " I’m tired, I’ll tell you tomorrow. Then you would say, no you won’t dad, no you won’t, I’m so sorry”. He might ask what do you mean I won’t, you come back here you little shit and clarify that for me! But by that time you and your six siblings would each have cocked the guns already. One one of the guns would have the bullet and everyone would be blindfolded. Off they six pops go and then you grieve. Other things happen like the cleanup crew would have to do their job. The facial reconstructionist would come in with the hot glue gun and do his thing with spray paint and lipstick. I mean after they removed the gag.
But sure maybe lethal injection was the way to go. A little cleaner. You still gotta remove the gag later. I can’t imagine electrocution as a proper way. But maybe a last palliative sunset view with Dynamite on the bed and a dead man’s switch. That would be a real quick and painless way to go. Plus if you do it on a boat in Florida waters the circle of life would take care of it…and no awkward funeral!
Okay gotta go start the day 😁. This is all sarcasm and like I said, my dad doesn’t or didn’t speak English… with the gag and all…so anyway…
