Is she repentant or proud. If the former that’s definitely worth some respect. If the latter, well at least it’s honesty.
- Having a moment to finally read the article. Seems she’s repentant. So that’s definitely some respect.
ironically as the only person who seems to take responsibility and show regret, she’s the one most deserving of a pardon. but hey the American justice system has never been about rehabilitation; only about which team you’re on.
12 steppers really do have a religious response to things. I guess that’s one of the few ways to fundamentally change your outlook on the world. Be nice if it wasn’t an actual religious program though. And that was the key for both that rejected the pardons: they were 12 steppers.
Unfortunately, it was formed from a prayer group, and as much as some of my fellow atheists have told me that you can be an atheist and a 12-stepper (and maybe they can deal with the cognitive dissonance), there is just no legitimately non-religious interpretation of step 11. The whole “anything can be your higher power” concept I’ve been told by those atheists simply cannot conform to step 11:
Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
You substitute “God” with pretty much anything non-deistic and that sentence simply does not rationally work.
I’ve always suspected that the biggest reason 12-step programs like AA do work for some people is that it’s a form of group therapy.
You can substitute for the universe, the program and people in it, or nature and I’d say it still works. Just how you frame prayer or meditation. One of the definitions of prayer is a solemn request. The purpose of having “God” in the 12 steps is to have a belief in something “greater” than yourself. To me the group of alcoholics who got me sober is something “greater” than myself because I truly couldn’t do it alone. The prayer and meditation can just be used almost as a manifesting of intention. If I pray that I be more tolerant patient and kind to those around me, than that’s more likely to be on my mind whether I’m intentionally sending that prayer to a deity, the universe, nature, or the idea of the group as a whole. I say this as a 12 stepper myself that is non religious. That being said a lot of people use God or a deity as a higher power, but just saying it’s certainly not a requirement.
No. You can’t. Because those make no sense when you rewrite it.
Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with the universe as we understood it, praying only for knowledge of its will for us and the power to carry that out.
The universe only has a will if you’re not an atheist.
Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with the program and people in it as we understood them, praying only for knowledge of their will for us and the power to carry that out.
This only makes sense if you think praying to a group will make them force you to do something. Which is nonsense.
¯_(ツ)_/¯ Hey, I guess I’m wrong, but it’s been working for me when nothing else has.
If it works for you, great. As I said a while ago.
It’s simpler than all that. Satanists would say God is just You, or some version of yourself that is all the things you wish you could be. The fact that you are there praying means you have a good idea of what needs to change, and are searching for the strength within yourself.
As I said, that makes it irrational. People like you say that, but when it actually comes to rewriting it, it makes no sense at all:
Sought through prayer and meditation to improve my conscious contact with me as I understand myself, praying only for knowledge of my will for me and the power to carry that out.
Dunno what you’re on about, makes complete sense to me. Just requires some mental flexibility.
Really? You pray to yourself? You don’t have conscious contact with yourself?
It takes conscious effort to be in touch with your deeper thoughts and emotions, so in a sense yes. Not everything that is known to the self is known to the conscious mind. Didn’t think that would be controversial.
“In a sense.” i.e. you have to make some really convoluted interpretations to make it work.
It appears common sense succeeded and Pam should receive a full pardon in Jan 2029.
