I have a real problem with this, and I’ve been on both sides of it. It really doesn’t do anything to help your cause by having people stuck in traffic. There are many reasons that someone could be in their car at that moment, not just commuting to or from a job. They could be on their way to a court appointment, they could have dinner in the car, they could be going to pick their child up from school, they could be on their way to a doctor’s appointment, or any of a million other reasons that make this not just an inconvenience, but a complete shithead thing for someone to put someone else through. Protestors aren’t making their case against the war by pissing off every person stuck in traffic, they are just being dickheads. If you want to protest a war, go hang out outside of a government building, or in front of an elected official’s house. Make them feel uncomfortable, not some poor schmuck who has somewhere else to be at the moment.
Edit: Ok, I guess I need to give a peaceful example. You want to block traffic? Block the exits to the parking garage where the elected officials park downtown. Do that for a week and see how much of an impact you make. Blocking commuters is a waste of energy.
I don’t think the goal is to convince the people stuck in the artificially created traffic about Gaza. I think it’s to get news coverage from sites like nbcnews.com so as to raise the profile of the Gaza war so that politicians must address it. You are welcome to argue whether that’s an effective strategy, but I think that’s the intent.
Also, side note… Social progress rarely comes from rule following.
Is the profile not high enough? I’m pretty sure everyone knows about it who needs to know about it. Blocking traffic isn’t going to make a ceasefire happen across the world. Annoying your fellow citizens and ruining their day isn’t getting any politicians to act. It’s pointless. Actions must be taken against those in charge if we want to see any forward progress. Blocking traffic to protest a war is like yelling at a frycook because you want the McRib back. The actions are being aimed at the wrong people.
counterpoint: the people who would enact this change are far beyond our reach as citizens so there is no way to target them with effective protests.
Besides, some of the best way to affect policy is to A. Cost large businesses money or B. To cause general unrest over an issue. Both of these things will piss your fellow American off but this is how protests work nowadays.
I think most protestors don’t want to block cars of normal people or throw paint onto paintings or whatever. But they have to because if you look at the laws, organized protest has no bite anymore. Go ahead, annoy the politicians, they’ll just arrest your outside of their house and no one will hear about your issue.
That’s the problem. No one is actually doing anything worthwhile. You are right, standing outside the mayors house will get you arrested. Do it anyway. Get arrested. You want to make big moves for your cause, do something worth being arrested over. Imagine if all of those people on the bridge yesterday had been blocking traffic to the mayors neighborhood instead. What are they gonna do, arrest a thousand people in a suburb street? That’s a fucking news story. Blocking a bridge is bullshit, it carries no weight because there is nothing on the line. Congrats, you fucked up a half million people’s day, I guess someone should call the genocide off, now.
What do you mean it carries no weight? That was my entire point. Make the public mad, the angry public starts yelling at the mayor. The business owners whose workers can’t get to the office start getting rather upset. Whereas if a minority inconvenience a politician, cool, but they don’t care. They will just find ways to avoid it. And in this case, you don’t have access to politicians that hold weight in regard to Gaza.
Go ahead, egg your senators house, they don’t live there most of the time. Threaten to vote them out, they run unopposed. The ways in which to express political efforts is now so narrow that stuff like blocking a bridge has become almost inevitable.
I do not think we live in the same world, where someone being late to their job will make the business owner consider political change.
counterpoint: the people who would enact this change are far beyond our reach as citizens so there is no way to target them with effective protests
Literally go to the capitols instead. Or go to their houses. Some place that actually effects them rather than complete laymen.
Seriously! Protesting has never accomplished anything ever and is totally useless unless it’s done explicitly for politicians that are totally receptive and eager to assist their constituents!
I think it’s to get news coverage from sites like nbcnews.com so as to raise the profile of the Gaza war so that politicians must address it.
Right… because the global leaders of the world aren’t already aware of what’s going on. Thanks for raising awareness, guys.
It’s about the public discourse. If an issue (e.g. the U.S. giving Israel weapons and enabling their war) disappears from the headlines, it’s much easier for politicians to ignore it. But if the issue keeps coming up, politicians feel pressure to act–or they risk getting voted out of office. Especially during an election year.
They’re not in front of the White House, they’re not even in front of city hall, they’re hurting their own.
The King loves it when the peasants fight amongst themselves.
Not sure if you are agreeing with me or not, but that is exactly what I’m saying. Right now, blocking traffic is about as easy for the “king” to ignore as anything else.
Completely agree. Blocking the average Joe driving home will get attention, but potentially for the wrong reason. I think your edit is perfect. Inconvenience those in power that can do something about it now, not someone who can really only do something when voting.
The objective is to appear in the News, which will result in way more people becoming aware of just how many people are against what Israel is doing in Gaza and the US Administration’s support of it, which in turn will lead others to become more open about they themselves being against it since they will feel that “we are many” rather than “it’s just me” - grassroots movements independent of established politicial and media networks, no matter how many potential supporters they have, must be seen in order to grow otherwise they’ll just fizzle away and nothing will change.
That usually means some kind of stunt in an important and highly public place which is almost certain to affect lots of members of the public.
Barelly disturbing a handful of politicians as you suggest would not make the News unless the Press was already there for some other reason and it would still have to be some kind of stunt (think the Iraqi guy that threw his shoe at George Bush) for the Press to even mention it in the news.
Unfortunatelly in the World we live in people have to use marketing strategies to merelly be seen, more so to have soap box to be heard by the rest of the nation, especially in Theatre Of Democracy countries were the “choice” is either pre-selected A or pre-selected B, and were the Press is not at all a Pillar Of Democracy independent of the Political Pillar but is pretty much joined at the hip with Political and/or Wealth Powers.
If it had the kind of Political and Press environment were those things could just be done the way you naivelly (or maybe misleadingly) suggest, the US would be quite a different place in terms of Power, Voice and Representativeness and not one where the only electoral “choice” is between two genocide-loving presidential candidates.
That usually means some kind of stunt in an important and highly public place which is almost certain to affect lots of members of the public.
Yeah, but you’re not getting public support. You’re getting the opposite.
I feel bad for the people in traffic but the protestors only get to this state because of repeatedly being ignored by the government. If normal protests aren’t cutting it anymore and you don’t want to be violent then what options do you really have? They (gov) just don’t listen.
Protest where it is effective, not where it gets you the most social media clout. Blocking traffic is the protesting equivalent of a selfie. Make some noise near an elected official, and often. See how quickly they change their attitude when they are the ones being fucked with.
Obviously they tried that to the tune of deaf ears.
I would love to know what Universe you live in where quiet polite demos in out of the way places get reported on the news and come to the attention of all the other 334,912,895 people in the US that didn’t see it personally.
Oh, you’re right. I forgot the real point of protesting. I’ve been living my life thinking it’s a public demonstration designed to let those in power know you are dissatisfied with how things are happening. Now I understand, though. It’s performance art for the last stay at home mom in Michigan who hasn’t heard about the war. We gotta get her to stop making that mayonnaise salad and start an aluminum drive for the war effort. Thanks for clearing it up. If I ever have a problem with anything in the future I’ll know not to go to the person in charge, I’ll just run into traffic and shake my ass at onlookers until the world changes for me. That’s gonna make things a lot easier from here on out.
Were you born yesterday?!
Because only somebody born yesterday would believe those in power in a trully Democratic nation (much less America, which is a Power Duopoly system, not a genuine Democracy) would care in any way form or shape with the concerns expressed by a few thousand people demonstrating politelly in an out of way place where their polite “expression of concern” did not even made the News.
If you’re lucky (in the US, you have to be very, very, VERY lucky), they might care about not losing the votes needed to keep on being elected, which in a country of more than 300 million people means caring about Public Opinion, not about politelly expressed concerns of a few thousand demonstrators that the rest of Americans aren’t even aware off and who clearly if their concerns aren’t addressed won’t do anything more than politelly demonstrate in a way that the politicians can carry on safelly ignoring forever.
Are you even old enough to understand that mere Passive Agressiveness doesn’t actually work as a means to get your way with people who have way more power than you do and don’t know you well enough to empathise with your (or who are just sociopaths, so wouldn’t care even if they did know you)?!
It’s quite extraordinary how when it comes to Politics in America there is this abundance of brainwashed unthinking drones spreading the idea that the only way to improve America is to keep on pulling your pants down and saying “Give it to me big boy!” whenever an American politician does something people disagree with, or maybe bark loudly but never bite, just like puny dogs like chiwuawas do.
Are you even old enough to understand that mere Passive Agressiveness doesn’t actually work as a means to get your way with people who have way more power than you do and don’t know you well enough to empathise with your (or who are just sociopaths, so wouldn’t care even if they did know you)?!
you definitely arnt old enough to know that it actually has gotten results. Worldwide. Mahatma Gandhi? segregation sit ins? white feather movement of the UK? and these are only off the top of my head.
Its quite extraordinary how when it comes to Politics in America, there is this abundance of brainwashed unthinking drones spreading the idea that the only way to improve America is to keep on dragging down others and saying “Why arnt you fixing this for me?” whenever an American politician does something people disagree with, or maybe bark loudly but never bite, just like puny dogs like chihuahuas***** do.
Oh right, the countless Revolutions that came about by not causing any bother to anybody. How could I forget those.
By the way you might want to read more about Ghandi if you think all he did was not bother anybody.
I think you may have responded to the wrong person…
Protest where it is effective
That being where…?
In some fat elected officials face. Probably about as far away from all of those people stuck in traffic as they can be.
Non-responsive.
Give a specific answer, not vague bullshit.
Find an elected official. Follow them to where they are meeting their mistress for a meal before heading to a hotel to fuck. Call the boys. Protest outside of the restaurant so the news is sure to catch the congressman running around on his wife. Make it inconvenient to be a lawmaker. Is that specific enough for you?
They just told you. At the politician not in the road like a coward who didn’t get enough attention when they were a kid
It’s not going to get the government to listen by doing this either. It’s completely ineffective and just pisses people off and actively stops them from supporting a cause.
/agree
I fully support the cause, but this just ain’t the way to effectively protest the system. I feel the same way about the climate activists throwing soup on art instalation (yes I know they are all protected, but to the average person you still look like an ignorant fucking asshole).
If you want to spur change, then you need to make it uncomfortable for your representatives to take a public position than conflicts with your ethics. Do so peacefully, but forcefully and as often as is feasible. You are much more likely to garner public support that way, and normies generally love anything that make politicians look bad.
I dunno I mean I would normally oppose this on principle, but I do kind of agree. This does stop all local traffic at the golden gate bridge, but it doesn’t really do anything to incentivize that politicians controlling the funding of israel at (mostly) the federal level to change course. Unless we maybe saw floyd-level protests happening across the nation, or something. This specific kind of protest is most effective when addressing local or state level problems, because local or state level leaders are more easily strongarmed, especially as they’re about to pass bad legislation. The threat of further property damage can be used as leverage which can influence local decisions. Local protests are better used against local targets, and target selection is crucial, basically, though that applies more to mass protests, this seems more like a smaller group.
It probably would’ve been better to go after a lockheed martin facility, or something to that effect, but obviously that comes with a much, much greater deal of risk. Probably the softest points to push on would be something like a higher-up, or the infrastructure going into and immediately around a facility, especially with such a small group. It’s not as though the locations of weapons manufacturers aren’t publically known, or accessible, or that there aren’t many different, small, critical pieces, including people, that go into the manufacture of advanced weaponry.
I see you don’t understand the point of protesting.
And that you don’t know how to protest effectively.
ITT- You’re allowed your first amendment right to protest war crimes, just not where I can see or be inconvenienced. Because all of the civil rights and anti war protests in the past 70 years that were truly successful were very polite and inconvenienced no one.
MLK Jr. literally wrote about this exact same thing in his Letter from Birmingham jail.
that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a ‘more convenient season.’ ”
Yeah I remember reading that in college. He wasn’t the bland platitudes guy high schools teach.
He was also assassinated right after he started pivoting from civil rights to economic inequality (starting the Poor People’s Campaign). Funny coincidence, that.
If it were today, he would’ve “commited suicide” with a shot to the back of the head.
Stopping traffic on the Golden Gate bridge to protest a genocide on the other side of the planet is so far from direct action.
When the state responsible for the genocide is reliant on our military aid its disingenuous to refer to it as a “genocide on the other side of the planet”
It’s realistic. And these protesters could be realistic and maybe even effective if they tried to disrupt production of that aid we’re sending to Israel. But I’m pretty sure F-15s aren’t made on a bridge.
There is difference between peaceful protest and sabotage. Exactly like there is a difference between discussing with someone and punch them in the face.
If you think people should not discuss because it’s pointless and should directly switch to punch in the face I suspect you are not necessarily the internet stranger I want to listen to
disrupting production is sabotage?
disrupting production is sabotage, but disrupting the economic health of a city is…?
at least you would be inconveniencing people that have a stake
I wish they cared this much about the people suffering in Sudan right now… Where’s the mass protests for those people…
I mean, the people they’re irritating aren’t the ones that can do anything about it. All you’re doing is pissing everyone off. Go to your state’s capitol and fuck that place up instead.
Pissing people off is irrelevant. You’re irrelevant. You will not be swayed. You have demonstrated that after 6 months of innocent deaths. Even if 100,000 children die. 1 million children die. You’re selfish and lazy.
This is direct action, it’s about adding a financial cost to the government’s direction. They’ve decided supporting a genocide is more financially beneficial than pursuing justice. If we shut it all down, they’ll change their tune.
If you want the inconvenient protests to stop, fucking join them so that the change happens quicker.
Right… because antagonizing and harming people is such a great way to convince them to help you.
At a certain critical mass a protest which interrupts labor needs no more recruits.
Interrupting labor is the most peaceful way to threaten the capitalist class. If you object to this, you advocate for more extreme measures. Be careful what you wish for.
This argument completely ignores the impact this has on regular people. People who end up late to pick up their kids from daycare and end up owing extra money when they can barely make ends meet as it is. Yeah, this may have some marginal impact on the capitalist class, but it will be far more painful for the employees who WILL be held accountable for being late to work and may easily end up fired, and certainly will not be paid for the time they miss. Let alone the life safety issues this type of demonstration creates. This is holding your peers ransom because of something you want and you take away their autonomy to decide whether or not to take part. If you can’t convince people to join your cause willingly, maybe your cause isn’t as good as you think it is.
Yes the capitalist class has been waging war on the working class for decades through wage suppression. What do you propose be done to turn things around?
Clock in early /s
Islamic terrorists could stop… you know, terrorizing, and hand over the hostages. It’s a starting point.
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Ah yes, the way to bring about peace and stop them killing each other is… more death? Do you even hear yourself?
That’s very… peaceful of you to say. Do you sympathize with terrorists who have civilian hostages?
Yes I agree. A coordinated approach at all state capitals and Washington, DC would probably have more impact. This is where the people who care about reelected live and work.
Maybe I’m just fedposting, but I think probably my only objection to this protest is that it wasn’t extreme enough, and I don’t think it accomplished as much as it probably could’ve considering all the people protesting got arrested anyways. Probably a good amount of caltrops on the bridge and a bunch of cards or spray paint could’ve accomplished about the same goal, and I dunno if anyone would’ve even been arrested that way. Probably would take less in resources, too.
That’s if you even looking at the same target, I dunno if shutting down the golden gate bridge is a great thing to hit up if you’re looking to protest gaza. I would probably think one of many even local politician’s domiciles, city halls, or lockheed martin manufacturing plants, offices, infrastructure, etc. would be better things to hit. I dunno of the economic or social impact or protesting at the golden gate bridge for what is basically an afternoon is going to put anyone under duress. Maybe the most you could say of it is that it’s a mild social escalation, which, granted, isn’t nothing, but is less direct and is harder to quantify the impact of.
They arrest them to clear the bridge. They tried to charge the ones in 2023 with ridiculous stuff but they eventually dropped all the charges in exchange for 5 hours community service. Don’t give them the ammo they need to actually lock up protestors.
I know lets destroy random peoples cars?? wth
Did they have a permit to protest on a public road? Freedom of assembly comes with some perfectly rational stipulations.
I’m sorry I didn’t see the word permit in the first amendment. I’m getting old enough to need glasses. Maybe I should try with them?
…
Nope, still no such requirement.
Didn’t see anything about age requirements in the second but it’s illegal to sell a gun to a kid. Crazy how things work.
Historically kids have never been afforded Constitutional rights. Which is kind of crazy. Almost as crazy as making the idea of kids owning guns equivalent to the bedrock right of a Democracy.
Just trying to show that there’s more to the rights in the Bill of Rights than just the text of the Bill of Rights.
To make it illegal to fight for lives vs. Fighting for right to own a gun are not the same. I guess nuance is not your forte?
That’s like arguing exceptions for hate speech shouldn’t exist since it’s not in the first amendment.
The US doesn’t have exceptions for hate speech. Unless you actively commit a crime while shouting it.
Is this comments section: “fuck shit up, society isn’t working,” vs “follow the rules when you protest, that’s how you make change happen.”
There has got to be a way to do this without hurting regular people.
Like I agree with the protestors 100%… but trapping people on a bridge? Blocking traffic? That’s dangerous and irresponsible.
Direct action and disruption is necessary, but this is absolutely the wrong way to do it.
Nothing like exercising your right to protest by infringing on everyone else’s right to travel freely.
I’m still curious as to how people think a ceasefire will help, when historically letting terrorists proliferate has the opposite effect and only spreads more islamic terrorism and even more deaths long term. Do people really want to keep this revolving door of teaching palestinian children to murder their neighbors?
Things like this are merely performative and will only make enemies, not enact change anyway
It seems to empower opposition to the cause as well. Also, in Washington this has happened enough we have legislation to increase the penalty for blocking infrastructure.
Its horrible what’s happening to Palestinians why do people keep pretenting the war can’t end at any moment if hamas surrenders and releases the hostages. Iran orchestrates this shit but has the far left wrapped around their finger protesting Israel and the US.
I think you meant israel and instead wrote Iran?
First Past The Post voting ensures these people remain unrepresented in the political process. We must pass electoral reform in each of our states so we can have more people represented.
ITT: car-brains who think being inconvenienced justifies murder
Ah yes, risk of getting fired and losing your livelihood after getting stuck on a bridge = “inconvenienced”
So you think getting fired justifies murder? WTF is wrong with you?
Oh yea, sorry forgot that the people who are worried about losing their jobs are also the same kind of people who have Biden’s personal cell number…
I never said it did, but nearly all of us don’t have the power to change shit except for voting in November.
The fuck are you talking about?
Just to be clear, you’re defending people who think they’re entitled to run over and kill protestors in order to get to work. (Specifically, comments like this one.) People who are so fucked in the head by car-brain that they think they’re being “held hostage” because the notion of simply getting out of the motherfucking vehicle and walking doesn’t even occur to them.
That’s what you’re defending: being a murderous psychopath pulverizing humans with a two-ton machine, for the heinous crime of (checks notes) getting in your way in the course of trying to stop a genocide.
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And honestly if you get fired after your boss sees what’s happening on the news, you didn’t wanna work there anyways.
A shit job is a lot better than no job
I support any protest that blocks car traffic. The fact that the protesters are protesting something important is a nice bonus.
So you were in favor of the fascist Canadian trucker rally?
Yep. We saw how quickly some people abandoned their principles about nonviolent protest as soon as they saw people they disagreed with doing it. Suddenly half my ACAB friends were cheering for the police to “do their job.”
There are ways for police to do their jobs without violence themselves.
Of course, it was pretty surreal to see people vilifying the effects of the protest not the protesters.
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Damn, fuck those people that didn’t also support the truckers’ right to protest!
That said, you should know if people are breaking the law while protesting they’re normally still arrested - that’s called civil disobedience. You’re absolutely still charged and prosecuted (normally).
That’s when people would expect and support police doing what they’re supposed to be doing (since we all pay them to enforce laws fairly, not just to beat black and brown people). It’s not hypocritical to support police doing what you think they should be doing - protecting, serving, enforcing traffic laws, etc.
acab, btw
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Too bad it also blocks bus traffic. And it’s not like the buses have an alternative route.
Edit: in fact it’s worse for bus passengers as the Golden Gate Transit system relies heavily on timed transfers and many buses run once an hour, so even a 10 minute delay could cause bus passengers to miss their transfer and make them have to wait an hour.
The fact that the us has abysmal public transit is not a reason to oppose protests.
If you hold me hostage, violence is an option.
You’re not a fucking “hostage;” just get out of your damn car and quit being dramatic.
ur not hostage you can get out of your car
That’s a pretty ableist assumption on your part.
One more reason why trains are superior than any other form of commute.
You could block train tracks this way too.
If you’re suicidal then sure.
If you’re suicidal, you block the train where it goes quickly. If you just want to block the train, you do it at the end of the station platform before it can leave.
If you’re so hellbent on inconveniencing general public instead of elites then good luck
That was sort of my point…
And my point was doing that will get you beaten by people who are already frustrated in their lives.
Go harass lawmakers and other elites.
My car is equally capable of rolling over protestors. So, there’s not much a difference on this front.
I don’t care what you’re protesting. But it should be done in a way where I don’t have to hear about it or see it.
Hillarious.
That’s like the opposite of the intent of a protest.
