Lawyers for Donald Trump’s former faith advisor Robert Morris accused a 12-year-old girl of initiating “inappropriate” sexual conduct with the ex-Dallas megachurch pastor, new documents have revealed.
Morris resigned in June after admitting to the incident. His accuser Cindy Clemishire previously claimed that the pastor had begun abusing her on Christmas Day in 1982.
Clemishire, now 52, said that Morris and his wife had been staying at her family home at the time when he asked her to come into his room, whereafter he told her to lay on his bed and then began touching her inappropriately.
She said the abuse had continued until 1987 when she told her parents.
However, 25 years after the incident, a lawyer for Morris – J Shelby Sharpe – claimed that it was the child who was actually to blame.
Even if she did, so what? A 12-year-old cannot consent. The adult cannot engage. This is not a defense.
The right thing to do if a 12-year-old makes sexual advances on an adult is for the adult to report it because the 12-year-old is probably being abused!! Not to have sex with them!! What the fuck?! (Not that I believe this shit for a second but even if it were true that makes him just as much of an abuser.)
the 12-year-old is probably being abused!!
Eh. I dunno. I was engaging in explicitly sexual activities with other children my own age when I was 7, and I wasn’t being abused. To the best of my knowledge, they weren’t either. Sexuality is pretty well baked into our DNA, and sexual exploration, sex play, and yes, sexual intercourse is something children tend to do because it’s so biologically coded into us.
On the other hand, parents should probably have a frank, shame-free discussion with children about what is, and is not, appropriate behavior with adults, how consent works with peers, and discuss time and space constraints on behaviors.
“Other children my own age”, sure. You weren’t seducing 22-year-old men.
The point was that sexual behavior in young children does not necessarily equal abuse.
Hav me you read the Bible?
Within some circles, it’s a little bit of one. Just not one that works legally or with you or me.
A 12-year-old cannot consent.
The people who need to hear this the most are also the ones who will respond to this statement with “No you idiot, it SAYS she initiated!” Or at least inside they will think this.
I used to think that this kind of statement would carry all the necessary information to teach people about consent, but no, it’s not nearly enough. We have several whole generations that skipped PBS and education and reading and life experiences entirely, they have withdrawn to isolated spaces that indulge whatever twisted passions they have and people make far, far less effort to understand concepts than they used to.
What you have to explain is that what a child thinks they want versus what you, an adult with adult perspectives wants, are not aligned and will lead to massive, massive power imbalances, and we protect children from their own foolish ideas ALL DAY LONG about other things.
You can do massive damage to a child psychologically by taking away their natural pace of growth and self-discovery and replacing them with your own ideas of what a sexual relationship is. A twelve year-old has another DECADE TO A DECADE AND A HALF to go before they finalize growth and development for the most part. In that time, they will draw on all their life experiences to guide them to a healthy future and a positive attitude about themselves and sex. If someone out there is reading all this and still does not get it, you need to haul yourself to therapy yesterday.
Buddy of mine’s 12-yo stepdaughter was flirting with him when they watched movies. He was horrified and confused.
“Dude, she’s just testing her feminine wiles on you since she sees you as safe, kinda testing her attractiveness. Doesn’t even have a clue she’s doing it. Just ignore it or gently push back if she goes too far.”
And of course all was well. Thought it was a cute and funny story.
And we have lawyers trying to slide this defense?! Not to mention the guy who took it seriously and raped a child! I swear to god they used to threaten disbarment over stupid shit like this.
tl;dr Kids do stupid shit when they start puberty. It’s on the adult to see what’s happening.
I’m in my late thirties and I have to remind myself when a younger twenty-something girl comes on to me, that is never going to work and I have to be the mature one to shut it down.
lol I like the comment but it comes across a little “look what I can do still”
That is not what I meant but I don’t know how to explain it without sounding like a douche.
The point I’m trying to make is that you have to recognize your place in life and use that as reference to help other people around you.
FWIW I understood what you were saying. I am a linguist which means I’m sensitive to differing meanings that the same words and phrases have. I happened to notice it on your comment and thought it was funny.
Little Girls need to stop being so SEXY!
-Republicans who think Drag Queens are bad for Kids!
Little girls parents need to stop making them up like that.
I know that you’re getting downvotes, but child beauty pageants are pretty gross.
Yep. The televised stories of the poor kids driven by their dragonlady mothers is really a sad thing to see
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I’m pretty sure the answer is that sky-daddy sent the little girl to test the pastor, that he might endure this challenge and come out a better man for the lesson. Sky-daddy doesn’t give agency to women or children - they serve only as props in the narrative of men’s lives.
Well, he certainly failed that test then.
It’s ok. He said 3 Hail Marys and abstained from meat and alcohol for half a day. He’s safe.
You’re giving them too much credit. “God works in mysterious ways” is what they say when kids get molested or die horribly.
In case anyone is not sure, this behavior is completely normal in the Christian circles. The number of times I heard people, preachers, or whoever blame the victim for causing the man of god to stumble is far more than you would want to know, and was every time.
One thing to understand about many Christian groups is that they elevate their preachers to a very high standing and believe that they are “so close to the Lord” that they just don’t do bad things. So, in order to preserve this cognitive dissonance, it’s the child that tempted them to sin.
atheists need to be more vocal
Atheists are extremely vocal.
we still live in a world where religion spoils secular life, so we’re apparently not vocal enough.
Even assuming this isn’t a fucking lie,
It is still just as much of a crime to sex assault a child even if the child initiates the inappropriate contact. Stop them and get them some mental help.
Is that at all a controversial opinion? I guess among Trumpanzees there are plenty who condone sex assaulting children (or adults) as long as the perpetrator is part of the in-group.
The normal thing to do when a preteen or teenager asks you to have sexual relations with them is to say “absolutely fucking not”.
The whole point of the age of consent is that below a certain age teenagers and children don’t understand what they’re agreeing to or asking for.
This is the stupidest possible legal defense they could make.
As the adult, it is your job, responsibility, nay DUTY to say “NO!!!” And run for the hills!
Can’t buy alcohol. Can’t buy cigarettes. Can’t be employed in most jobs. Can’t get a drivers license. But can initiate sex with an adult?
They can certainly attempt to, particularly if they’ve previously been abused by a caregiver. It’s totally something you’re trained to deal with if you work with vulnerable children, as it’s a major indicator of this. Teenagers are a bit different as they are exploring their sexuality and may incorporate this into disruptive behaviour if they notice it gets a reaction. Neither of these situations would serve as a legal defence, however, were you to start joining in. A colleague had a fourteen-year-old girl in a hitched-up skirt come and sit on his lap and pout because he told her off in class. He just stared at the wall until she got off, then went and reported it.
Yeah - if you are a teacher you ALWAYS leave the door cracked open, never alone with a kid.
Those kinds of kids almost always have genuinely experienced sexual abuse elsewhere. I’m working with a child who does exhibit that kind of behavior - propositioning adults/other teens and then claiming assault when rejected. The thing with kids and false allegations is that they are usually wildly inconsistent - as long as organizational safeguards are in place, it’s usually easy to verify that the claimed event didn’t happen. It is a STRONG indicator for previous experiences of abuse though.
This case is not at all consistent with what false allegations look like.
Ex-fucking-excuse me? Not just victim blaming, but victim blaming a child? I fucking hate living on this planet. Just launch me into the sun already.
The child rapist has literally no defense, so his lawyer is trying the “she was asking for it” card.
The sad part is that this is not a ceiminal case, as there was a statue of limitations back when he was raping her. There no longer is, but that doesnt help her. All she can do is sue him civally. Still, “the 12 year old in pajamas was asking for it” is not gonna help here.
Lawyers are obligated to defend even obviously guilty people, but seriously? Victim blaming a child?
I get it, it’s hard to come up with a tenable legal defense when someone is starkly guilty, but this is just gross.
Yeah thanks for pointing out something that sort of tickled my brain for a while now and made the thought full formed. I’m going to start pointing this out because it is WILD that we have a culture of saving children from the predators and then also blaming children for being preyed on. And it’s just the one side.
How much hypocrisy can someone swallow ffs???
When I see the most depraved defense from lawyers like this it just tells me that the person is so fucking guilty that I now suspect them guilty of even more than we know.
You know, I’m only five years younger than him, and yet never in my life since I was about 12 years old myself has a 12-year-old so much as flirted with me. This 52-year-old is somehow irresistible to the middle schoolers?
I have had a 12 year old flirt with me. It was cute, and I wasn’t tempted to molest her because I’m not insane.
I believe you, but I’m guessing it’s not especially common for a girl as young as 12. They barely understand the concept of flirtation at that age, and these days they probably think they know about sex by seeing internet porn when their parents didn’t know about it.
Anyway, like you said, it’s pretty easy to just not touch the girl.
It’s cute when a kid has a crush like that, but that’s all it is, a crush. From someone who doesn’t understand what romance is beyond what’s in pop culture. It’s cute and wholesome.
An adult seeing that and going “hmm, what if” is the exact fucking opposite of cute and wholesome. They’re a freaky ass fella who needs to be locked up.
Providing just a small correction here. The child was 12 at the time, now 52.
Robert Morris (the accused sexual predator former pastor of the rapist, racist, sexist, traitor, “Christian”, beloved friend of Jeffrey Epstein, and convicted felon Donald Trump) was 22 at the time and now 62.
A 22 year old preying and praying on a 12 year old. Just so disgusting.
Whoops. Sorry. And yeah, no 12-year-old ever flirted with me when I was 22 either. And if they did, I would be smart enough not to reciprocate even if I was interested, which I wouldn’t have been.
No prob! I just had to internet search this pastor because I wanted to know just how old his gross ass was when he did that. I think most functioning persons in society would have the same mindset as you shared.
You seem cool…can we launch THEM into the sun instead?
After this I don’t think donald trump can continue his campaign. He should step down and allow another Republican to take his place.
“I put it to you, your honour, that that child is sexy.”
Pro-tip: if a child comes on to you…fucking DONT!
So just “megachurch pastor” headline? No other descriptors you’d like to add?
This is the best the lawyers could come up with? He very clearly scraped the bottom of the barrel when looking for legal representation
Even Nabokov didn’t say Lolita made Humbert Humbert do it.
Well… He did make the character Humbert Humbert say it, though.
“Frigid gentlewomen of the jury! I had thought that months, perhaps years, would elapse before I dared to reveal myself to Dolores haze; but by six she was wide awake, and by six fifteen we were technically lovers. I am going to tell you something very strange: it was she who seduced me.”
Yeah, but he made Humbert say it to show what a despicable person he was.
religion strikes again. it’s almost like the world would be a better place without it.
before you come with the ‘shitty people can be anywhere’, ask yourself would this person have been emboldened to act on their sociopathic desires without having religion to hide behind?
