Author J.K. Rowling has fallen silent on her usually busy X (formerly Twitter) feed, after Olympic gold medalist boxer Imane Khelif filed a legal complaint in France for alleged cyber harassment over statements regarding her gender.
On August 9, lawyers for Khelif filed a lawsuit with a special unit of the public prosecutor’s office in Paris, stemming from false statements that spread online about her gender after the Algerian boxer defeated Italy’s Angela Carini in her first fight of the 2024 Olympic Games. Carini pulled out 46 seconds into the bout and told reporters afterwards that she had “never felt a punch like this.”
Oh no, consequences.
Only because she attacked a cis woman. No consequences from the years doing everything in her power to targetedly harass individual trans peolle, the community as a whole or publishing books about trans serial killers.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy to see her go quite, I hope she stays that way. But I’m bitter it wasn’t a realization that her crusade was mysgonstic hatred, only that she was a zealot who accidently friendly fired.
Anyone with basic critical thinking skills would have known this whole scandal was bullshit in the first place. Did it not occur to any of these TERFs and transphobes that Algeria (a Muslim nation known for persecuting the LGBTQ community as a whole) is one of the least-likely nations to field a trans candidate?
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Yeah, I’ve had a sad laugh about all this stupid alt-right knee-jerk reaction. Algeria, bastion of “wokeness”.
How out of touch are these people?
You assume they even heard of Algeria before this. Or even during it. The country she represented was not part of the bigotry, just her looks/build.
Joanne has a full university education and has traveled the world. There is absolutely no way she doesn’t know Algeria is a Muslim country and that a Muslim country would in no way approve an openly queer athlete to be on their Olympics team.
She’s just a bigot.
On the other hand, Algeria is a country unlikely to formally recognize an intersex person.
Are they more likely to be intersex than just doping with testosterone?
Doping with testosterone would certainly have been tested for (amongst other PEDs).
Does it come up different in the body than just normal testosterone?
Sorry, not a doping expert. Reports of cheating seem to focus on quantity of testosterone, not quality.
But in this case the discussion is moot. Imane Khelif didn’t have abnormal levels of testosterone.
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It’s about fucking time someone shut her up
she thought she was Hermione. turns out she was just Malfoy.
I’m a Conservative championing Genital Inspections on Children to make sure ONLY PEOPLE with Vaginas play Girl’s Sports but also THIS Women with a Vagina is ACTUALLY A MAN!
when a man breaks a record he is a super human, when a woman breaks a record she is a man.
And thus, by the transitive property, a super human.
Did she break any record? Also AFAIK the same didn’t happen to previous medalists or generally the strongest female boxers. It also didn’t happen with other monsters who broke tons of records (e.g. Katie Ledecky) just during this Olympics.
This makes me think that it’s not what you are saying but there are probably other reasons in play. Probably the IBA and the media making a case after the first boxer withdrew are responsible.
In combat sports there’s a lot of derision for women who look too strong. Instead of complementing their training regiment and dedicated they get called ugly and a man all the damn time.
On the other end usually those same trolls will call women who train and still look feminine to be gold diggers training with so many men, that’s for posting pictures of themselves training, making weight etc. And send them dm’s offering money to be choked out.
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I am sure that’s the case, but I think this has not to do with “breaking records” I.e. having success in sport. It might have to do with general gender stereotypes related to body types, for example, or with other stuff.
So either way the comment I was answering to seems counterfactual and sensationalistic.
obviously stereotypes make people’s story more believable and easier to go viral and that is why people choose the stories they choose. doesn’t change the fact that there are people who would rather explain an unexpected level of success shown by a woman by saying she is probably not a woman. the story they choose is irrelevant really. They could have claimed she has cybernetic extensions in her muscles and it would be the same thing. And all you are saying is “but there are other very successful women who have not been treated that way”. Sure, did not say every single very successful woman is deterministically being treated unfairly. I am saying it is a tendency.
but there are other very successful women who have not been treated that way
What I am actually saying is that the vast majority of successful women athletes didn’t suffer from this at this time at all. If this argument works only for Imane Khelif (not even the Taiwanese boxer, who has been mostly ignored), out of the hundreds of women who just won medals, maybe it is not an argument that can be generalized to “women of success”, and other causes have to be searched.
This to me is basic common sense: if a thesis works only on a handful of examples and there are hundreds of counter examples, maybe the thesis is wrong. A tendency would require also more examples.
So are you claiming that there is no historical bias towards downplaying women’s successes in general or that in history there was but now as a whole Earth has progressed so far that we have left all those behind? Or is it just that it doesn’t happen in sports but happens in other areas? Or women have been downplayed but never because of success but always for other reasons?
This to me is basic common sense: if a thesis works only on a handful of examples
What you call a handful of examples is taking a magnifying glass and only looking at this particular event. If %10 of successful women have ever been downplayed because of their gender (due to unconscious biases for example) vs %1 of successful men, then this is still a handful of examples which nevertheless points to a significant bias.
None of those, really. Just that downplaying successful women doesn’t happen as much in sport, and when it does it’s not by stating they are men.
If %10 of successful women have ever been downplayed because of their gender (due to unconscious biases for example) vs %1 of successful men, then this is still a handful of examples which nevertheless points to a significant bias.
- Ok, but where is the data?
- Sure, it point to the fact that women’s success are downplayed. Not that when women are successful they are called men.
It has to do with the fact that testosterone is a performance enhancement drug and men are categorically stronger than females, and a man punching a female is strictly unsafe.
At the moment we don’t have any concrete data, so in case it is based on a suspicion at most.
breaking record not in the formal sense but performing exceptionally well, such as beating your opponent in 46 seconds in the last 16
I doubt that fight can be counted as “exceptionally good performance”, but anyway why the same didn’t happen for those that both performed exceptionally well and actually set records?
There are so many examples of that not happening that makes me seriously doubt it identifies the right cause(s).
What you think are the right causes are not the causes, they are the tools (stereotypical biases etc) that these people use to make their stories believable.
And counting is not the correct methodological approach to this question it is the incident rate (historically of women whose success has been deliberately downplayed because she does not fit the stereotypical women in their head vs men who suffered from the same).
Those look nothing like “tools” to me.
I will make it simpler: In this very thread a person talked about “high testosterone”. Why they didn’t say the same about the 99% of the women who won competitions? Probably because of a combination of factors:
- The masculine aspect of this particular boxer, that doesn’t fit the image that many people have of women
- The media reporting the immediately pushed to a polarization of opinions -> you had to take a side
- The previous IBA debacle that planted the seed of the doubt
To me the combination of the above is a much better explanation of the causes for which people attacked this particular boxer, and not the many other women of success, including black and including masculine (e.g., Simone Biles, or Grace Bullen).
historically of women whose success has been deliberately downplayed because she does not fit the stereotypical women in their head vs men who suffered from the same
I really don’t see how this measurement can lead to any conclusion. How can you not measure the amount of women who don’t fit the stereotypical woman aspect and yet whose success has not been downplayed due to their aspect (i.e., people called them men)?
Why they didn’t say the same about the 99% of the women who won competitions?
It makes up for a more believable story in this context (boxing which is accepted as a masculine sport) and therefore becomes a more efficient tool. It fits in more easily with people’s biases making it much easier to spread. Simon Biles is a gymnast so that does not fit into the context here. Grace Bullen does. But you can not simply say “it did not happen to other women in plausible scenerios, therefore it is not real”. It is like saying belts are useless in %90 of the cases, it is a useless statistic that does not take into account the expected effect.
I really don’t see how this measurement can lead to any conclusion.
What do you mean? Comparing the rate at which women are subject to such effects vs men is a worse statistic than saying “but many successful women are not subject to such effects”? If there is a systematic bias towards women’s success being downplayed, you cannot call this an isolated incident of stereotypical bias.
You can take any other boxer, I specifically chose black and “masculine” athletes as examples to show that even race/body type alone was not the determining factor. In these Olympic games you have just Imane’s example: how can you call this a trend or make general statements with one case (not even the Taiwanese boxer got attention)?
What do you mean? Comparing the rate at which women are subject to such effects vs men is a worse statistic than saying “but many successful women are not subject to such effects”? If there is a systematic bias towards women’s success being downplayed, you cannot call this an isolated incident of stereotypical bias.
Men don’t have a category to which they are wrongfully assigned when they win sports. This is also because men are the higher category in most sports (i.e., higher performers), so it is a parallel that simply doesn’t make sense. So yes. It is a worse statistics because men who are victim of gender stereotypes are generally not the ones who excel at sports (men who are called women in general break the masculine stereotype of the muscular and competitive guy - and these unsurprisingly are not characteristics common in elite athletes).
If there is a systematic bias towards women’s success being downplayed
But this was not your claim either. Your claim is that downplaying is done by specifically saying those women are men. The whole point here is on the cause, not the existence of the phenomenon in general.
The IBA is notoriously corrupt and in the pockets of Russia. The whole stuff against Khelif was likely made up, because she did not adhere to planned match fixing by the IBA.
Add to that the fact that she is from an African Muslim country and on top of that the country that kicked the French colonisers out. She was made the perfect targeted for all levels of racism and white supremacism, from the very blatant, to the more or less concealed “Liberals”.
To be honest I don’t consider something being Russian as automatically 100% false. This case from the IBA seems likely made up, or at least it is until they provide further proof, which they didn’t so far.
That said, this is irrelevant in this particular conversation. Real or not, that precedent is in my opinion partly responsible for why people decided to attack this particular athletes. I agree with you on the next country also playing a role.
Basically my whole argument is that there are multiple factors that made this a case. The fact that she “broke records” or “had success” is generally very low in the list, imho.
“Could any picture sum up our new men’s rights movement better?” the writer asked. “The smirk of a male who’s knows he’s protected by a misogynist sporting establishment enjoying the distress of a woman he’s just punched in the head, and whose life’s ambition he’s just shattered.”
This fucking smug cunt.
Some people need a punch to the head to stop being so smug
throw Rowling into the ring
The irony of Rowling getting sued for calling a biological woman trans
Good, sue her ass off Imane. Take her for every penny. Rowling is an asshole.
And let this be a lesson to all internet people, I know y’all hear about the first amendment a lot, but it only applies in America. You have to actually follow the laws of the country you’re in
Except that’s bullshit, you can get sued for libel and slander in the USA.
The first amendment does not give every US citizen carte blanche to say whatever they want. This is often misunderstood, even amongst a lot of the US population.
You can, however, call The POTUS whatever names you want, just don’t even imply any sort of harm may come to them.
It’s amazing how fast lawsuits can shut up anybody who still has at least two brain cells left. Doesn’t work on Trump or Elon for some reason. I’m sure it’s a coincidence.
Different laws. In the UK it’s generally easier to sue for defaming someone like Rowling is accused of doing.
This is under French law, though, and it’s cyberbullying law instead of defamation.
The Wall Street Journal still has an article online that says:
The Algerian boxer is biologically male but allowed to compete in the female category
Fuck Jeff BezosEDIT: Oh dang this isn’t WaPo. Fuck him anyway though.
Wait how is this blatant lie allowed to remain published online? I thought the WSJ had at least some credibility?
how is this blatant lie allowed to remain published online?
A lot of people still think there’s consequence or rules or regulations on what publications can say or do. We abolished those laws a long time ago.
No modern US media has any credibility anymore. They are owned by a handful of wealthy people who don’t give a shit about truth or journalistic integrity.
WSJ is a Murdoch propaganda outlet
Bezos has nothing to do with the Wall Street Journal
my bad
The author, colin wright, touts himself as a fellow for SEGM “The Society For Evidence-Based Gender Medicine;” which is a non-profit organization that is known for its opposition to gender-affirming care for transgender youth and for engaging in political lobbying.
He’s a POS who gets paid to write smear pieces endangering the lives of trans people, by people with even worse ideals than his own.
Bahahaha not so careless about throwing your hatred around on your sleeve now, are you bitch?
I hope she pays dearly for her racism and bigotry.
Racism?
all of this started when the (Russian controlled) IBA suddenly disqualified Khelif (who had been boxing for many years without issue) after beating a Russian. Since then IOC banned the IBA due to ties with organized crime, fixing fights, and financial instability, so now IBA has no influence on olympic boxing whatsoever.
fast forward a couple years to the bigger stage of the olympics, twitter warriors pick up on the story again based on nothing more than “looks like a man” which happens disproportionately more to women of color. So yes, this kind of thing often does have racial undertones.
Yes, she is Algerian (North African) and that was a major reason if not the reason why she was targeted.
She was targeted because it was spread falsely she had XY chromosomes and had high testosterone, not that she was North African. Rowling has had plenty of hate for white trans people.
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And JK Rowling specifically is a racist.
I also mentioned bigotry. I am aware she is a TERF.
Attempting to insinuate racism diminishes the other truthful charges.
I mean, her books are full of racist tropes, like obvious ones. Ones she still defends to this day.
Yes. And those tropes are saying racism is bad. Pure blood/mugblood, enslaved elves etc. All bad in the potter universe.
However, Rowling deserves some blame for allowing the goblins to become Jewish caricatures.
No it wasn’t
How much money did she make with HP, billions not millions, right? How can she be so dumb spending her life like a bored internet Karen instead of enjoying it to the fullest with no worry whatsoever?
because she is successful, and there is literally no one more vile and disgusting as a rich person, especially if that person happens to be friends with neo-nazis
But there are successful people who don’t spend their lives like her so your explanation falls quite a bit short.
there is no such thing as a moral rich person
That wasn’t the question
Weirdly, I saw a video online about how people have been looking at videos JKR has been making and the weird coincidence that black mold has allegedly been seen in her backgrounds, given the symptoms of black mold in a person and how the appearance of it lines up with when she started spouting these “opinions.”
Ok now we’re in 4chan territory
I was looking for serious Medical explanation of her condition, not the latest gossip from trans TokTok.
Money can take away a lot of your problems but it can’t make you enjoy your life. That’s a skill you have to learn that starts with being comfortable with yourself and listening to yourself. A lot of people can’t handle doing that and it’s why they stay so miserable. Money won’t help with that, it only helps with having your most base needs met. She’s miserable because she never put in the effort to learn to not be and so she turns to the internet for an outlet to remove some of her misery but of course it can’t do that and so she becomes more miserable and lashes out more and more just like anyone else regardless of money. True peace comes from within and within she is hollow and vapid.
