the people who follow his unlawful unconstitutional orders need to be held accountable for their actions when the next adminstration HAS to clean up this administrations messes.
This is the actual reason why there is a 2nd amendment
They believe the constitution should be interpreted to uphold the will of a leader/law and order over liberty of the people.
I’m not saying I disagree with you, just telling you what the legal argument will likely be when they arrest people or return force when people try to defend their home.
That argument JD Vance made about judges not having the authority to rule against executive decision is not his original argument. Adrian Vermeule is a Harvard constitutional law professor who has been making the argument favoring unchecked executive authority over all other government and executive power over liberty for a very long time.
Let’s fuck 'em up then.
Law and order? What are you smoking?
Trump has always described himself as the law and order president
The argument of ivy league legal scholars that are helping run his administration is that the people elected the president. The president’s duty is to do what he believes is best to protect the greatest number of people.
If Trump says that this is law now, and this law is necessary to protect the country, then individual liberty and rights will have to be secondary for the good of the country
The Harvard constitutional law professor that created this legal theory is a huge fan of Carl Schmitt.
Schmitt created the Nazi legal agenda using a similar legal argument which argued the will of the leader should be placed above all written law because it was best for Germany, making the German constitution basically useless.
This allowed Hitler to legally carry out genocide.
Thank you for explaining, and yes, I get all of that about how Trump and his intellectuals are claiming to be about law and order. My point was a more simple one: it can’t be about law and order if the president is above the law. Maybe we could use the term “order and law” instead, since they’re subjecting the law to the hierarchy of political power.
Following his orders = the law. He makes up the law, follow his orders.
That’s what dictators do.
it was supposed to be a secret?
Let’s face it, tRUMP is such a narcissistic fool that the only real shocking thing about all this is that he didn’t rage-tweet about it in the middle of the night whilst sitting on the toilet in-between faxing top secret documents to Russia and the Saudis.
There was a traffic stop a month or so ago where the city police were called by BP for assistance and they actually assisted them in kidnapping people. The mayor is pissed and says that can’t happen due to our sanctuary city status (since 1986) and now the federal government is suing us. We have a HUGE population of immigrants from all over the world here as refugees and to attend our two universities and this is going to get ugly.
The head of C&BP is coming to my city this week because of all this. Something tells me ICE is going to be crawling all over this city the whole week and longer. BP already crawls all over the city because we’re on the northern border.
I live in a HUD building. I see ICE searches without warning in my near future because of how many immigrants are here. My cane might be useful for more than just balancing me while walking.
I’m honored to have you among us.
Welcome to the New United States of America, where the Contitution is no longer valid where contradicting King Trump.
I know most people on Lemmy are already aware of this, but I’m wondering if anyone who still doesn’t think it will effect U.S. citizens (whatever that even means anymore) realize that DHS is also trying to dismantle their civil rights offices.
They are claiming it is because the offices keep getting in the way of their immigration practices, but only 2 of the 3 offices have to do with immigration.
They 3rd is the office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties. It doesn’t matter if you believe you’re the “right kind of American,” or you can argue that you can trace your family to the Mayflower. This is who ensures you have civil rights and civil liberties while dealing with DHS. If you or a loved one end up in DHS custody for some reason and need to use FOIA to prove it happened, this is the office you would rely on.
The people that handle domestic security for the country want to get rid of the office that protects the rights of Americans. Meanwhile, they have also signed this memo saying they no longer need a warrant to search people’s homes if they suspect there might be an immigrant hiding in your home bc those immigrants might be terrorists.
Again, if you’re thinking well I’m not hiding immigrants, it really doesn’t matter.
Maybe one of your neighbors reported you were to fuck with you. Maybe you pissed off the wrong DHS agent or other government employee and you’re being targeted.
The point is, if you’re not concerned because you think it won’t effect you, your ancestors that “came here legally” to escape tyranny would think you’re either stupid, delusional, or simply choosing to be in complete denial of reality.
Yeah this is serious authoritarian secret police 101
They just defanged Congress and the Judicial, now they don’t need judges at all unless they want em. This seals the coup
If they break in my house I’m gonna start blasting as if they were criminals (which they are). I don’t play these games with normal people and I’m sure as shit not gonna play them with the plain clothes Trump gestapo. If anyone has seen Daredevil born again with the Fisk anti vigilante taskforce thats what we’re getting but irl.
Hey ICE, if the President tells you to do something illegal, you don’t do it! You can still be held liable.
Is it really that hard to have ethics anymore?
ICE doesn’t care. They’re obviously enjoying being able to do what theyve been doing the past few months.
There are federal agents that have been reshuffled to ICE as punishment for the Jan 6 investigations, and have been accused of leaking information to the press.
I originally just thought the termination of civil rights offices would mainly be to use polygraphs on these employees and refuse due process rights because so many were trying to warn people of what this administration is doing.
I wasn’t expecting something like this memo so soon.
There are definitely plenty of loyalists carrying this shit out, but I believe the administration may be intentionally trying to reshuffle as many federal employees as possible (and now city police to ICE) to increase civil unrest and increase the chances the public will turn on the same people leaking information.
If Congress won’t do their job, it will come down to these people willing to refuse orders and face termination if not arrest. The only reason I bring this up, is that if this happens we should keep in mind that there have been people inside ICE trying to warn the country about this stuff for a long time.
If we are too quick to dismiss all of them as loyalists, the administration will be able to downplay any dissent when orders are refused, and possibly convince others who are on the fence that it’s in their best interest to comply bc the public is not on their side.
The things is based on their legal interpretation of the constitution, the people chose the president to uphold law and order and do what’s best for the people. If the president determines this is what is necessary in order to protect the people from terrorists, his legal team will argue for a constitutional interpretation that says individual liberty is always secondary to the common good.
Just to be clear, this is not what I believe or support. This is what they will argue. I am writing this to try and warn people what they have in mind when they talk about constitutional interpretation
the supreme court gets to decide this. And considering some of the recent rulings about due process, I am hopeful.
But how are they going to enforce it? They’ve enforced 0 rulings so far. Trump has been publicly mocking them while defying their orders
I am hopeful if it does, but the memo is saying they can just do this. So it will take this actually being enforced and someone’s (or multiple people’s) rights being violated for this to end up before the supreme court.
I think it’s no coincidence there was such a high profile arrest of that judge in Wisconsin just before this happened.
Right, and history shows that these are major mistakes that always have consequences.
I hope so. If the Senate and representatives won’t take a stand (which seems they won’t), it will be up to police, federal agents, and military leaders taking a stand and refusing orders, probably being terminated if not jailed/court martialed, and public support for them.
In a more just world, our local police forces would stop this illegal activity.
Our local cops owe their authority to the State
I have a hard time imagining a world with cops at all that don’t end up doing this
They are supposed to have some freedom from the state within their own city/county jurisdiction, but small government loving members of the GOP are trying to do away with that and force cities and counties to adopt state policy(which is often just federal policy).
My state AG is taking my parish to court over it this Wednesday
If you heard about the 2 year old that was just deported by ICE last week, that was also my state/parish.
That’s probably why states are trying to force local police to take on the role of ICE.
My city has what the governor and AG are calling “sanctuary city policy.”
Really the sheriff has just said they do not take a stance, but they don’t have the resources to handle the immigration responsibility the state wants them to take on. So the AG is wasting tax dollars bringing them to court this Wednesday to try and force the community to adopt federal policy.
How bout that small government and fiscal responsibility?
I mean they already are. They’ve been doing this since March.
The only reason we know is because one of the many employees within ICE who have been leaking information to the press in the hopes we would pressure congress to do their jobs, also leaked this.
If you know anyone in the conservative camp that’s still blissfully unaware/not pissed yet, loop them in. Their voices are the most important when it comes to giving Congress one last try while they’re still collecting paychecks paid for by our tax dollars.
If it comes down to us fighting we will have to join together anyway if we stand any chance. The next civil war will not be left vs right, it will be Americans refusing to follow orders vs. corporate billionaires controlling both public and private military (Blackwater, Palantir, etc.).
It sounds like we should prepare for a rash of home invasion shootings. (I’m not promoting anything, just saying)
The gestapo are here
Only good ICE is WATER ICE - which is still subjective, and oddly all CAPS.
Easiest way to get shot.
And they will claim they are in their right to return force. Idk what to tell you. I agree this is fucked up and you should have a right to defend your home.
That is the most basic American shit. The people that are on the white house legal team agree with that unless it conflicts with executive authority. To me that seems like you might as well have a king at that point, but they believe that a leader is chosen to promote what is best for his people. Given he was elected to do that, law and order (which is up to the leaders interpretation) takes presedence over liberty.
Adrian Vermeule is a Harvard constitutional law professor who has been making the argument the constitution should be interpreted to favor executive authority and power over individual liberty for a very long time.
Hmm. Stand your ground against fascism.
So now thieves can just write ICE on a vest and they can rob you
